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Post by thefirstenemy on Dec 11, 2006 21:00:33 GMT -5
Okay, O'Reilly is being an assbag and doing that whole "War on Christmas" bullcrap. I'm asking you, especially if you're Christian, if you honestly care at all.
If I say "Happy Holidays", you immediately think of Christmas I bet. Which is GRRRRREAT. That's my intention. I'm wishing you GOOD. It's the exact same as if I had said Merry Christmas, right.
By saying "Happy Holidays", all it's doing is wishing other people well even if they don't celebrate Christmas. I can't understand, how any rational person could actually be offended by this.
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Post by bbqsandwich on Dec 12, 2006 12:47:44 GMT -5
Mr. O'Reilly is a great writer, and an even better commentator/ host. Why you feel obligated to inject extraneous negative phrases into a thread on the man's view of Christmas is beyond me.
His point is, it's not just dumb for people to say that using the words "Merry Christmas" is offensive; it's an all-out attack on our culture.
I have no problems with "happy holidays," or more realistically, "have a great winter break." Most people, Christians included, use the former of those phrases frequently, and the latter on occasion, as well.
The problem arises when, as in the cases presented by Mr. O'Reilly, ceremonies and symbols affiliated with "Christmas," or even use of the word itself, are deemed offensive.
My two cents on the matter: I don't care if my actions, words, or beliefs are offensive to others. If I say "Merry Christmas" to a person, and they feel offended by my reference to a religious holiday, than they can deal with it. This is America; freedom of belief and freedom of expression are the very foundations of our Nation - and there is no right to "not be offended" written in our Constitution.
When someone tells me that I cannot say "merry Christmas", whether they just don't like the Christian faith, or they feel that the public acknowledgment of such holidays is equivalent to the establishment of a religion (*eyeroll*), I find that to be an infringement of my rights to express myself, and an attack on my heritage.
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Post by thefirstenemy on Dec 13, 2006 22:33:26 GMT -5
Mr. O'Reilly is a great writer, and an even better commentator/ host. Of by all of that you meant blatant liar and complete douche bag. Stop watching Fox news, it makes you retarded. |
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Post by Kathryn on Dec 13, 2006 23:30:22 GMT -5
Here in Australia, nearly every shop you see has the "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" sign in the window. Here it has become tradition- weather you are Christian or not. We all accept these signs and the shops aren't labled as Christian shop owners. I myself aren't Christian, yet i love Christmas. What i'm trying to get at is Christmas has become a internation holiday for (mostly) everyone. Its not just the celebration of the birth of Christ, but a celebration of family, love etc...*deep breath* im done now
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Post by bbqsandwich on Dec 14, 2006 15:57:16 GMT -5
What i'm trying to get at is Christmas has become a internation holiday for (mostly) everyone. Its not just the celebration of the birth of Christ, but a celebration of family, love etc...*deep breath* im done now I'm not sure that this disconnect between Christmas and Christ is a positive thing...maybe a mixed bag, at best. But that's not the point. I agree with you that many people seem to enjoy Christmas, say "Merry Christmas," and maybe even go to church on Christmas day, regardless of whether they're religious or not. "Celebration of family" is a good way to put it. I think even my family sees it that way, and most of us are fairly religious. Of by all of that you meant blatant liar and complete douche bag. Stop watching Fox news, it makes you retarded. If you have something meaningful to add, by all means speak up. If you want to turn this or any other issue into a partisan mud-slinging contest, be my guest - but pick a better suited venue. This is a nice forum for calm discussions based on reason and logic - not your random unsupported attacks on conservatives, the mentally-challenged, or anyone else. |
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Post by Admin on Dec 14, 2006 23:33:25 GMT -5
Here in Australia, nearly every shop you see has the "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" sign in the window. Here it has become tradition- weather you are Christian or not. We all accept these signs and the shops aren't labled as Christian shop owners. I myself aren't Christian, yet i love Christmas. What i'm trying to get at is Christmas has become a internation holiday for (mostly) everyone. Its not just the celebration of the birth of Christ, but a celebration of family, love etc...*deep breath* im done now But Christmas has become more of just a "fun" holiday than a purely Christian holiday. For instance, the Christmas tree, Christmas lights, and Santa Clause have no relation to Christianity. I even know a Muslim who moved to the states from Syria, and he celebrates Christmas (and Ramadan), with no relation what-so-ever to Christianity. Though I heard that Christmas and a few other Christian holidays originally where pagan holidays, taken over by the Christians to gain more followers. But I am not sure if that is true or not. |
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Post by Admin on Dec 14, 2006 23:45:55 GMT -5
Mr. O'Reilly is a great writer, and an even better commentator/ host. Of by all of that you meant blatant liar and complete douche bag. Stop watching Fox news, it makes you retarded. Please quit using foul language. I did not raise your warning level any, but I will next time, especially if it offends another member of this forum. But I will ask that you review the rules of this forum, specifically: 3. Since this is a debating forum, civility must be kept. Political mudslinging is allowed to a certain point, if the topic has lost its meaning and has becom nothing but mudslinging, then it will be locked.4. A topic must remain ontopic. Political threads have the tendency to cover large areas, be courteous and create a new topic if you wish to address it. |
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Post by bbqsandwich on Dec 15, 2006 0:42:15 GMT -5
On the pagan thing, I'm not sure exactly how deeply rooted in pagan culture the Christmas tradition itself is, and I'm certain the modern tradition we know today has very little in common with pagan new year's fesitivals and other such celebrations, but I do know that the Christmas tree has its origins in Germany.
Also on the pagan thing, a large chunk of Catholic rituals and beliefs are adaptations of the pagan Greeks and Romans, as well of the beliefs of native cultures - particularly in South America. It was relatively easy for Catholic missionaries to gain converts when all they had to do was convince the natives to simply change the name of the god(s) they were worshipping to "Saint XYZ." Similarly, the rituals were modified to make them more acceptable, or blended with ones already existant in the Catholic cutlure.
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Post by thefirstenemy on Dec 20, 2006 22:18:39 GMT -5
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Post by voltage on Jan 24, 2007 21:50:18 GMT -5
I only find a problem with the idea, that no one can say Merry Christmas and must say Happy Holidays strictly for politically correct purposes.
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Post by Admin on Jan 25, 2007 1:15:34 GMT -5
I think that political correctness is necissary if we're all going to 'get along'.
But maybe just say Happy Holidays to those who you don't know very well, and to those who you know are fellow Christians, or familly members who are also Christian, say Merry Christmas.
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Post by bbqsandwich on Jan 25, 2007 17:20:12 GMT -5
Political correctness is an infringement on Free Speech.
One can be politically incorrect without compromising civility. If I were to accidentally say "Merry Christmas" to a friend of mine who happens to be an atheist, I think they would probably not be offended.
If they were offended, I would simply remind them that there is no Constitutional right not to be offended.
The reason why no such right exists is simple: logic. Let's say, for example, I am mortally offended by the sight of a person consuming red jell-o. Therefore, I lobby Congress to make a law stating that the consumption of red jell-o is banned, on the grounds that consumption thereof constitutes an offensive act to certain persons. Well, across the road lives a fellow for whom consumption of red jell-o is not only a favorite passtime, but also a way of life and a centrally-defining characteristic. Clearly, he's going to be offended when someone steps in and says to him "hey, you can't eat that anymore."
So we have a situation in which either I must live with the other fellow's offensive habits of eating red jell-o, or he must live with my offensive refusal to allow him to partake of red jell-o.
Either way, one of us will always be offended. So, logic dictates that there can be no right not to be offended.
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Post by Admin on Jan 25, 2007 19:37:33 GMT -5
One can be politically incorrect without compromising civility. If I were to accidentally say "Merry Christmas" to a friend of mine who happens to be an atheist, I think they would probably not be offended. If they were offended, I would simply remind them that there is no Constitutional right not to be offended. Hmm, good point. I have never seen anyone get offended for someone saying merry Christmas. But can't Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. in the US at least be content with 'Happy Holidays' to people they don't know and 'Happy/Merry ________' to known followers of their religion? What if a Jew was to say to a Christian, or a Muslim, or a Buddhist, etc., 'Happy Chanukkah', would it still be the same? Or what if a Christian was to tell a Jew, 'Merry Christmas'? Could there not be some conflict there. It may be alright to tell an Atheist Merry Christmas, but what about another Theist, who celebrates different religious holidays? I think it all comes back to the seperation of church and state arguement. |
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Post by bbqsandwich on Jan 26, 2007 0:18:21 GMT -5
I have never seen anyone get offended for someone saying merry Christmas. Nor have I, but I have heard many people debating from the perspective that the word "Christmas" shouldn't be mentioned in polite conversation. It amounts to the theoretical equivalent of the same situation. But can't Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. in the US at least be content with 'Happy Holidays' to people they don't know and 'Happy/Merry ________' to known followers of their religion? What if a Jew was to say to a Christian, or a Muslim, or a Buddhist, etc., 'Happy Chanukkah', would it still be the same? Some Christians actually keep some of the original Jewish customs, so I see no conflict here in that regard. When my cousin visits during the holidays, she celebrates Chanukah and Christmas..."more presents," as she puts it. I'm not sure about the Buddhists, but they're supposed to be very tolerant, so I doubt they would mind. The Muslim reaction would vary based on the individual involved. At worst, a reasonable reaction would be to stick one's nose in the air and turn the other cheek -- words are just words, and since they would be well-intended words in this event, clearly no harm could result if all persons involved were reasonable. Or what if a Christian was to tell a Jew, 'Merry Christmas'? Could there not be some conflict there. It may be alright to tell an Atheist Merry Christmas, but what about another Theist, who celebrates different religious holidays? I've never been upset hearing the word "Kwanza," for example, despite the political (rather than religious) connotations of the term. So why would any reasonable person, of any religion, have grounds for being upset about a situation in which they are wished a Merry Christmas by a well-meaning stranger? If a person gets off a plane arriving from a different time zone and says "good morning" to you, and it's 1 PM in your time zone, does that change the sentiment? Would you be offended at the perceived inaccuracy? I think it all comes back to the seperation of church and state arguement. How so? You mean like separation of the individual and religion? Because the state doesn't generally send out Christmas cards (or Season's Greetings)... |
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Post by Admin on Jan 29, 2007 1:18:07 GMT -5
I'm not sure about the Buddhists, but they're supposed to be very tolerant, so I doubt they would mind. I have a friend who is Buddhist. I don't believe she minds being wished a 'Merry Christmas'. Though she did get upset about something a Christian said to her relating to Christianity, but I don't think it was merry Christmas. If a person gets off a plane arriving from a different time zone and says "good morning" to you, and it's 1 PM in your time zone, does that change the sentiment? Would you be offended at the perceived inaccuracy? Probably not. I would probably laugh and then correct them. But I don't see how religious-oriented expressions are related to an error in a greeting for the time of day. I think it all comes back to the seperation of church and state arguement. How so? You mean like separation of the individual and religion? Because the state doesn't generally send out Christmas cards (or Season's Greetings)... Oops, I wasn't thinking when I put church and state   |
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