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Post by Kathryn on Jan 29, 2007 17:53:16 GMT -5
Do you think Education indeed does start after school as in the work force, uni's etc? Or do we learn life's true lessons after we have finnished 12 years of a formal school education?
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Post by voltage on Jan 30, 2007 17:56:42 GMT -5
I believe that those 12 years of formal education are the basis for living in this country. I think there is a sharp difference however, in learning your facts and learning life lessons. Your education is very much neccesary in getting a job, finding friends, and in the case of our language, learning how to communicate more effectively in society. But lifes lessons as we call them, learning what love is, consequences of our actions, and how to survive are all based after we begin to take care of ourselves.
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Post by Kathryn on Jan 31, 2007 1:54:36 GMT -5
IYour education is very much neccesary in getting a job I quite disagree, it is not neccesary, but instead an option. Think about apprenterships and Tafe's. You dont need a formal school knowledge to succeed in those at all. Aprenterships run on the people that havent succeeded in a formal schooling OR the formal schooling situation isnt for them. Not eveyone is suitable for school. In these enviroments, you learn from experience- not a text book. |
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Post by voltage on Jan 31, 2007 13:01:54 GMT -5
I dont understand how saying apprenticeships without being specific strengthens your argument. Sure an apprentice may learn how to cook from someone who went to a college, but who is better off? The one who has to leech on to someone elses knowledge and might make it? Or the one who went through formal education and can now teach those who did not. Everyone is suitable to learn. Its not a question of schools themselves, but a question of education. Now not everything in life is text book learned, I never said that. 12 years of formal education was where I was hinting. There are several instances in such where you do experience without text books. Shop class, drivers ed, chemistry, etc.
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Post by bbqsandwich on Jan 31, 2007 15:02:04 GMT -5
In America, it's a little different. Vocational schools are not considered as prestigious a track as "higher education," and the gradeschool education system by and large does not convey useful skills to persons wishing to enter the technical/ vocational arena without a additional study -- though many self-motivated individuals do so anyway after graduating from high school. Personally, I think of public education as serving three functions: 1) Keeps kids away from their parents. Convenient for families with two working parents or a single working parent. Focuses, guides, and contains the lives of kids -- "Keeps 'em off the streets." 2) "Bully pulpit" for the system/ the government to indoctrinate the youth. Builds support for government social safety-net, builds support for Big Government and Big Spending, builds support for globalism, and builds support for just about any other half-baked idea the Establishment (or the individual teacher) feels like cramming down the throats of impressionable young children. Please note that it is not until after most people have graduated from gradeschool (around age 18) that they are permitted to take part in the political process by voting. Surely the ability to think rational thoughts does not spontaneously occur on an individual's 18th birthday; no, that date just happens to coincide closely with the completion of Government Indocrination -- here's your diploma, it's too late for a tin-foil hat to to save you, now you can go vote like we showed you. 3) Theoretically, schooling socializes children; it teaches them to interact with others. The U.S. prison system clearly suggests otherwise, but... 4) Keeps many, many people in employed who otherwise might be forced to contribute to society by engaging in menial labor or another more productive intellectual endeavor. Not everyone can be a good Kindergarten teacher, but just about any person with half a brain and a fair education can teach 6th grade History or 7th grade English. -- Please note that "teaching students how to count past two" is not one of the functions listed.  |
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Post by Kathryn on Feb 1, 2007 3:26:13 GMT -5
The one who has to leech on to someone elses knowledge and might make it? Or the one who went through formal education and can now teach those who did not. I absolutly disagree. You make it sound like that we shouldnt share our knowledge. Isn't that the same as a formal class? The teacher shares the knowledge to the student. Everyone is suitable to learn. Its not a question of schools themselves, but a question of education. This cannot be true. Not everyone is suitable to learn. For some, they have a need for knowledge. But not everyone is the same (duh) and therefore a school situation cannot be for everyone. Some people hate sitting behind a desk all day. So vocational training is the answer. What about children with ADD or ADHD? For them it is physically impossible to sit behind a deck and listen to a teacher for 6 hours a day. |
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Post by voltage on Feb 2, 2007 9:10:28 GMT -5
The one who has to leech on to someone elses knowledge and might make it? Or the one who went through formal education and can now teach those who did not. I absolutly disagree. You make it sound like that we shouldnt share our knowledge. Isn't that the same as a formal class? The teacher shares the knowledge to the student. Read my post please. I said who is better off? The one leeching knowledge he could have learned, or the one who learned and can now share their knowledge with the unfortunate ones. Now you've gone into territory which you cannot understand. FOr some reason when you make your posts you offer no research or eyewitness account of your accusations. I have Attention Deficit Disorder, and even though I choose to not use medication I can still concentrate enough (as hard as it may be) to do basic studies. There are also medications, some with side effects others that did well for me, such as concerta and strattera. My older brother has Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder. He went through 12 years of formal education and throughout Highschool he was honored as a efficient and productive student several times. There is an even broader market for ADHD medications then there is for ADD, so dont even start with saying that its impossible to sit behind a desk all day. No everyone is not the same, but education is still very much neccesary. |
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Post by Kathryn on Feb 2, 2007 17:08:04 GMT -5
Read my post please. I said who is better off? The one leeching knowledge he could have learned, or the one who learned and can now share their knowledge with the unfortunate ones. They are both better off. Both of them are learning the same thing regardless where they obtained the knowledge. I have Attention Deficit Disorder, and even though I choose to not use medication I can still concentrate enough (as hard as it may be) to do basic studies. There are also medications, some with side effects others that did well for me, such as concerta and strattera. One of my best friends is the same. She uses the medication and still finds it difficult to sit behind a desk all day. so dont even start with saying that its impossible to sit behind a desk all day. No everyone is not the same, but education is still very much neccesary I still cannot see any evidence to back up your claims to suggest that education is still a need in life. If you think you have proof, then please, by all means point it out to me. |
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Post by voltage on Feb 2, 2007 18:36:12 GMT -5
Read my post please. I said who is better off? The one leeching knowledge he could have learned, or the one who learned and can now share their knowledge with the unfortunate ones. They are both better off. Both of them are learning the same thing regardless where they obtained the knowledge. So you would look up to someone who dropped the chance of education and now has to take time and effort out of someone who made the most of the opportunity? Your not making a whole lot of sense here. Think about it, you offer two people the chance to have free drivers lessons and a drivers license. The first person says ok, let do the 12 day driving course and Ill work hard for my license. After they go through the work, the other person go up to him and wants him to use up gas out of his car, and to use his license to show him how to drive. Then he complains about the drivers course which is indirectly the thing which is teaching him! Now the way you are approaching it is rather selfish. You wouldnt care, as long as the other guy gets what he wants. But what you refuse to acknowledge is the difference between a mental issue and lack of self discipline. Im sure you have lots of friends with ADD, but guess what! Im on the other side of the river! I see things and know things about this disorder that you cant even observe! I had a lot fo trouble with sitting behind a desk, but I later found out that I could train my own mind into doing what is neccesary. Read the above posts. |
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Post by Kathryn on Feb 3, 2007 6:59:22 GMT -5
So you would look up to someone who dropped the chance of education and now has to take time and effort out of someone who made the most of the opportunity? Your not making a whole lot of sense here. Think about it, you offer two people the chance to have free drivers lessons and a drivers license. The first person says ok, let do the 12 day driving course and Ill work hard for my license. After they go through the work, the other person go up to him and wants him to use up gas out of his car, and to use his license to show him how to drive. Then he complains about the drivers course which is indirectly the thing which is teaching him! Now the way you are approaching it is rather selfish. You wouldnt care, as long as the other guy gets what he wants. When you start vocational training, what is your teacher there to do? He is there to share HIS knowledge with you so you can recieve the essential skills to perform the job. The student is not going to complain that he isnt getting taught the wrond thing, other wise he can just leave. The point I'm trying to stress is that the teachers of vocational training are there to teach new student in their trade. That will offer the oppotunity for extra staff by the time the student has completed the course. But what you refuse to acknowledge is the difference between a mental issue and lack of self discipline. Im sure you have lots of friends with ADD, but guess what! Im on the other side of the river! I see things and know things about this disorder that you cant even observe! I had a lot fo trouble with sitting behind a desk, but I later found out that I could train my own mind into doing what is neccesary. I think we are getting a little off subject here. |
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Post by Admin on Feb 3, 2007 18:25:01 GMT -5
Read my post please. I said who is better off? The one leeching knowledge he could have learned, or the one who learned and can now share their knowledge with the unfortunate ones. They are both better off. Both of them are learning the same thing regardless where they obtained the knowledge. I have to agree with you here. No matter what, whether you are an apprentice or a student at a formal school, you are still learning from someone elses knowlege. For instance, my psychology class. I do not know much about psychology as of yet, nor do many of the students in the class I'm sure. However, the teacher knows a great deal. Therefore everyone in the class goes to that class in order to learn more about psychology, from what the teacher already knows about the subject. In the same way, an apprentice goes to work, and learns about his profession. Let's say if you want to be a carpenter, but you know nothing about carpentry, then you will need to find someone who knows, just like going to a school. Then the person who is skilled in that profession will educate you based on his knowlege. In this way, both formal education and apprenticeship are the same. Learning wise anyway. |
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