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Post by Paragon on Mar 28, 2007 8:28:10 GMT -5
I'm not talking about individuals, I'm talking about the government. Establishment in this context extends to supporting a religion as well, as that affects the establishment of it among the people.
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Post by voltage on Mar 28, 2007 10:53:19 GMT -5
That would be fit if a neutral government was founded neutral. But this government has christian and/or recognition of God foundations. Thus the only people pleased by taking that out would be those who dont recognize God. Oh my. Thats you!
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Post by Paragon on Mar 28, 2007 12:59:06 GMT -5
That would be fit if a neutral government was founded neutral. But this government has christian and/or recognition of God foundations. Thus the only people pleased by taking that out would be those who dont recognize God. Oh my. Thats you! This government was founded neutral. |
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Post by voltage on Mar 28, 2007 19:07:00 GMT -5
Then why is there religion in the Govt'  |
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Post by Admin on Mar 28, 2007 19:17:52 GMT -5
Then why is there religion in the Govt' Because so far everyone has managed to stray away from how our founding fathers envisioned America. Neither Democrat or Republican follow the constitution as they should. We get permanently involved in the affairs of other countries. And Congress add's a prayer before meetings, and puts the "under god" statement in the plege. Even though our founding fathers said to keep religion out of government completely. I don't know, you explain to me why we have strayed so much.. (Switzerland is how America was supposed to be) |
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Post by voltage on Mar 30, 2007 16:00:42 GMT -5
Now your stretching, where did the founding fathers say religoon should be out completely? The clause says Congress shall make no law hindering or establishing religion. That doesnt mean congressman cant pray, it means they cant make a law saying you have to pray. Its very simple.  |
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Post by Paragon on Mar 30, 2007 18:43:42 GMT -5
Now your stretching, where did the founding fathers say religoon should be out completely? The clause says Congress shall make no law hindering or establishing religion. That doesnt mean congressman cant pray, it means they cant make a law saying you have to pray. Its very simple. Correct. But this nation was not founded as a Christian one, and it is important to remember that. |
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Post by ixthusdan on Apr 4, 2007 23:30:45 GMT -5
The nation was founded upon Christian principles. It is not even a doubted question. Why else would histroy books have to be rewritten to exclude what was reported by those who lived then? Of course, Christians do not call nations Christian, but people.
Philosophically, there are some problems with your concept of "neutrality." People live their lives and make choices based upon their moral ethical values. Whether they are police officers, teachers, trash collectors, or politicians, they makes decisions based upon their own core values. Expecting someone to be someone else is silly; either that or one is looking for schizophrenia. Now, most of the time, someone advocating neutrality is really saying that they have no beliefs. That is another delusion, but for this thread let's accept such a notion at face value. The only ethical system that holds to such a thing is atheism. Neutrality, then, is only acceptable to atheists. Escaping belief is the cat running away from its tail!
The more intriguing question on the matter is what value does neutrality represent? I shall illustrate. A man builds a pool. His neighbor, who does not like pools, asks him to build a shelter so that the awful pool is not visible to him. They argue because building a shelter was not a budgeted expense. They look at you and ask for an opinion. You say, "I am neutral." The neighbors then come to blows and the police are summoned. The decisions to be neutral in this case was a choice to allow the neighbors to come to blows! The philosophical fundamental is that no choice is still a choice, and it is always a negative choice.
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Post by Paragon on Apr 5, 2007 21:45:06 GMT -5
The nation was founded upon Christian principles. It is not even a doubted question. That does not make it a Christian nation. |
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Post by ixthusdan on Apr 5, 2007 22:32:20 GMT -5
I can agree that the US is not a Christian nation. But it was founded upon Christian principles, contrary to what you have been taught.
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Post by Paragon on Apr 6, 2007 11:43:40 GMT -5
I'm sure the majority of the "Christian principles" upon which it was founded are nearly universal among humans. Can you think of any of those principles that this country was founded on that are purely Christian, and not present in any othere religion/society/culture?
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Post by ixthusdan on Apr 6, 2007 13:19:09 GMT -5
Certainly. The opening of all official meetings starts with prayer, and has always started with prayer. It is Christian. ;D
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Post by Paragon on Apr 6, 2007 18:06:19 GMT -5
Certainly. The opening of all official meetings starts with prayer, and has always started with prayer. It is Christian. ;D Excuse me? Can you give an example? Besides that, plenty of other religions pray...Christianity certainly has no copyright over prayer. |
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Post by bbqsandwich on Apr 6, 2007 23:12:23 GMT -5
Sorry to drag the coin thing into this thread, but plenty of other religions worship "God." Christianity has no copyright.
More to the point, do atheists pray?
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Post by Paragon on Apr 7, 2007 21:17:44 GMT -5
Sorry to drag the coin thing into this thread, but plenty of other religions worship "God." Christianity has no copyright. More to the point, do atheists pray? That depends on your definition of the word "pray". |
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